Building a new Eventide

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Thabit
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu February 10th, 2011, 2:33 pm

Building a new Eventide

Postby Thabit » Fri February 11th, 2011, 5:00 pm

If someone were to build a new eventide , could there be repercusions legally . I am curious about this because i am interested in building one and still exploring options

steve

Re: Building a new Eventide

Postby steve » Wed March 30th, 2011, 11:43 pm

The plans are out of copyright and were always intended for home construction, so I would think there would be no legal repercussions involved, although I do wonder if any company is allowed to manufacture the boats commercially.

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Kevan
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat June 26th, 2010, 9:10 am

Re: Building a new Eventide

Postby Kevan » Thu March 31st, 2011, 3:33 am

Fair enough response Steve, and certainly consistent with what I have heard elsewhere about "publicly available" plans. Being slightly askew myself I originally interpreted his inquiry as referring to meeting current design codes and registering the boat with the appropriate authorities.

I did an internet search when Thabit's post originally appeared, and found that there are several codes that apply to safety (fire extinguisher, floatation devices, lights, fuel line locations, Lightning attenuation etc.) and I even think there is a link on the EOG website to the UK version for much of that.

Interestingly I could not find advice on whether you as the builder (as there is no designer to be responsible) are responsible for the scantling/planking dimension and stability of the design. Perhaps that is best considered covered, having once been adequately designed. I have done my best in reviewing the Riptide stability and am more than happy with the results. Comparison to some other similar, more recent designs, the scantlings seem about right, although am strongly considering planking in 2 layers of 9mm ply below the chine (modifying the rebate etc. to accommodate of course). if I recall it adds about 60kg but at just the right spot.

However here is a question: If the Standards for approving a design were to change (over the intervening years from when the original design was completed) I wonder if the design is legally adequate? For example if the design Standards in 1995 decided that a factor of safety for water pressure on a submerged foredeck should be doubled, the 12mm ply with 610mm spaced frames may no longer be satisfactory. Boats built before 1995 would of course likely be exempt, but someone building now - with a design that no longer meets code? If there were a sinking resulting in deaths etc., would the coroner question you using an "out-of-date" design?

Frankly, I am willing to take the risk, but am considering having a local NA review and sign off on the design for a fee. Call it the "Peace of mind fee".

steve

Re: Building a new Eventide

Postby steve » Thu March 31st, 2011, 8:10 pm

Thanks for the reply kevan, I must admit I never even considered the things you cover in your post, it would be useful to all prospective builders if this site had a page detailing these issues and what the builder might be expected to know and deal with.
If any doubts can be removed, more people might try building or repairing their own boat, especially in the current economic climate.
I vaguely recall reading somewhere that you can build your own boat, but cannot sell it for 5 years, presumably, if there is anything wrong with the boat it will sink before the 5 years are up.

chris s
Posts: 135
Joined: Sun March 5th, 2006, 6:55 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: Building a new Eventide

Postby chris s » Fri April 1st, 2011, 10:20 am

steve wrote:I vaguely recall reading somewhere that you can build your own boat, but cannot sell it for 5 years, presumably, if there is anything wrong with the boat it will sink before the 5 years are up.



I thought that was to do with the VAT rather than seaworthyness? :lol:

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Kevan
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat June 26th, 2010, 9:10 am

Re: Building a new Eventide

Postby Kevan » Sat April 2nd, 2011, 7:11 am

My memory is functional but faulty. I recalled something akin to Steve's comment about 5-years proving the boats structural ability, and have chased it to ground again. It was actually in a Transport Canada specification(?) that I came across when looking for information on registering a boat in Canada. There may be a similar UK or EU version.

I had mentally tagged the criteria as relating to registering a boat, not providing protection or certification that the design "met the regulations". It could be argued that way I guess and make my previously stated concerns groundless. I have included the link to the full doc if anyone wishes the full version - splicing a part of a standard or regulation out for review is a dangerous thing.


From: http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafety/tp ... nu-521.htm

"713. (1) A vessel’s structural strength shall conform to the construction standards.
(2) A vessel’s structural strength and watertight integrity shall be adequate for its intended use, taking into account the maximum anticipated loads. The vessel’s strength and integrity are adequate if
(a) the vessel is constructed, manufactured or rebuilt in accordance with the recommended
practices and standards for the type of vessel;
(b) the vessel’s design has been used for a vessel of the same type that was operated for at least
five years without a marine occurrence
or other event related to a deficiency in its construction or
maintenance in an area where the wind and wave conditions are no less severe than those likely
to be encountered in the vessel’s intended area of operation;

. . . ."

It may satisfy my concerns regarding changes in reg's. I wonder if there are any Eventides or Riptides more than five years old? Hmm.

chris s
Posts: 135
Joined: Sun March 5th, 2006, 6:55 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: Building a new Eventide

Postby chris s » Sat April 2nd, 2011, 8:39 am

Kevan wrote: I wonder if there are any Eventides or Riptides more than five years old? Hmm.



That really begs the question, Are there any Eventides or Riptides LESS than 5 years old?

BTW - Doesn't time fly when you are not watching it? I just realised that my self built senior is 20 years old next year! :shock:

JamesH
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon October 13th, 2008, 11:22 am
Location: Bradford UK

Re: Building a new Eventide

Postby JamesH » Mon April 4th, 2011, 10:15 pm

If I remember rightly a boat cannot be sold for 7 years if it has not got an CE certificate - euro compliance something from brussels!
The CE includes a the RCD recreational craft directive.
Did not someone (Mark Urry?) get the Golden hind through the RCD? Cat A I thought and B for GH26?

Surely someone like Selway fisher would be happy to Obilige?!

Even if you thought you might sell before the 7 years take out the engine / mast and sell as incomplete?
I really don't think that they are after eventide owners.

More like the makers of the Beezee? which turned turtle and kills two I think it was?

Yours James

WW still thinking!!
Hi looking to build an WW!
any thoughts.
Have many of the materials for keel and frame.
Yours James

steve

Re: Building a new Eventide

Postby steve » Sat April 9th, 2011, 6:09 pm

In newsletter 15, on the owners tips page, there is an article on the GH "Kepple" which covers how a gas installation is affected by the various safety standards/schemes, as I am going to fit-out an Eventide, I should read this article as well as the safety scheme's requirements in full.
The article says that you can sell a boat you built at any time, you just have to sign the declaration that the boat conforms to the relevant safety standards.

steve

Re: Building a new Eventide

Postby steve » Mon April 11th, 2011, 12:25 pm

The links page on this site has a link that takes you to the BSS website where you can download a copy of the Boat Safety Scheme Essential Guide.

Link here http://www.boatsafetyscheme.com/site/GettheGuide_7.asp

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Eventide Owners Group
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Re: Building a new Eventide

Postby Eventide Owners Group » Thu April 14th, 2011, 12:38 pm

Hello all, perhaps I can help and clarify the situation regarding the European Recreational Craft Directive and regulations

Anyone in the EU can build a boat outside of these regulations and it is quite legal to launch it and use it.

Because there is a stipulation that I, whilst on the Cruising committee of the RYA , fought to get us. It is that we can be exempt, but only if we do not sell the boat for 5 years after date of completion and launch. Me it would have been akin to chopping off a limb to sell mine immediately after all that effort! 20 years on and I still won't part with her. Lets face it if you build them you know every timber and screw and if there are any doubts about any part of the build you are aware and keep it in mind, if it worries you you will put it right! I have never had a moments qualms with mine....

The reason for the exemtions condition is to protect the commercial boys who have to pay £5,000 a time to get a boat past the regulations tests and surveys and have to vector that on to their selling price. If amatuers were allowed to build and sell right away, they would undercut the boat builders and there would be boats that may not conform to any regs, sold as new.

For the most part the Recreational Craft directives motives and rules are fair. Indeed any one of us building a boat for our own use and taking the advice of the Owners Group, looking at the standards as laid down by the Waterways authorities for boats in their waters, would have a boat fit for purpose and very little different to one built to the standard.. We just do not have that EU builders plate. (Nothing to stop you putting your own on though, with the name of the builder the date etc....)

No one is hopefully going to take all the time and expense of building a boat to make it to be unsafe for them and their family. The designs in our folio have all stood the test of time, and have proven safe cruisers. However do not think an Eventide can just set out and sail to Australia without a few modifications, captive washboards, shutters over windowns etc All the boats that have made long trips like this, were well prepared. Even the 24ft 'Borer Bee', sailing from Singapore to the UK in 1958 was well kitted out as well as well built!

(I would however consider the smaller boats like the little Senior for sheltered coastal use only, though I know of at least two that have made very long trips, one across the North Sea to Holland and back, and singlehanded!)

What you will not have without the EU certificate is a stability test and a certificate of use, ie coastal offshore or ocea, number of presons allowed on board.. Common sense mast kick in here.. I had a surveyor assist whilst i was building, every time I got to a significant stage I asked him to pop along and check and advise. At the end of the build I had a 100% survey that any insurance company would accept. He even did a stability test for me, on paper!

I would strongly advise using the link to the Waterways standards on the Links page and on the Builders and Restorers page. It has good practical advise on sea cocks, gas intallations, engine and fuel installations. It used to be called the 'Grey Book' and you bought a copy from the Inland Waterways, I still have the old one I used. Before that the 'Thames Conservancy' rules! Now it is on line as downloadable pdfs!

Hope this ramble is of some assistance and reassurance, go on, get the wood ordered, best Iroko and get laminating!

John
Eventiders
Web site Coordinator


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